April 27, 2000

Introduction

I once again reaffirm that the following text is the absolute truth and is not fiction. It was composed from three original tape recordings which were made on April 24, 2000 with a tape recorder during my second interview with the reptilian creature known as "Lacerta". At Lacerta's request, the original text of 31 pages was revised and shortened up to deal with some questions and answers. Some existing questions were partially shortened or amended. It was even undertaken to extract message and significance from it. This part of the interview, either not mentioned or not mentioned completely in the transcript, deals primarily with personal issues, paranormal demonstrations, the social system of the reptilian species and alien technology and physics.

The reason for the shifting of the date and time of the second meeting was a possible observation and surveillance of my own person after the publication of the first transcript. Although everything was attempted on the advice of Lacerta to keep my identity a secret, just two days after the dissemination of the document abroad, various unusual events took place. Please don't think that I am paranoid; however, I believe that the publication of the interview has drawn either official attention or the attention of some organization to me. Up until this time, I usually regarded people who believed that they were being followed by the state to be nothing more than jokers. But now I have begun to revise my ideas on that since events in January. It began with a failure of my telephone for several hours. When the phone became operational once again, there were quiet echoes and strange clicking and whirring sounds when I made calls. A defect could (ostensibly) not be found anywhere. Overnight, important data disappeared from the hard drive in my computer. The testing program reported "defective sectors" where strangely enough there were only data which dealt with illustrations and completed textual material from the interview. These "defective sectors" also contained material of a paranormal nature in the field of my research. (Fortunately, the material was also stored on floppies.) In addition I discovered by pure chance some hidden data in a likewise hidden directory index. The name which appeared on the data and the directory index was "E72UJ." A friend, who is a computer expert, could not make anything of this designation, and when I was about to show it to him, the directory index had disappeared. One evening, my apartment door was standing wide open, my TV set was running-and I am absolutely confident that I had turned the TV set off.

A minivan with British markings and the imprint of a Europe-wide supermarket chain parked in front of my house. I noticed the same minivan again on several occasions traveling at a distance behind my car, even when I visited the town of ...... 65 kilometers away. When I returned, the car was on the other side of the street once again. I never saw anyone get into or out of the car. A knock on the door of the vehicle and on the tinted windows caused no reaction of any kind. After about two weeks, the minivan disappeared again. When I informed E.F. personally about these events, he suggested that I change the place and date of the meeting in order to assure our own and Lacerta's safety. The meeting took place on April 27, 2000 in another isolated location. It was unobserved as far as I can determine.

Once again, all of this may sound strange and paranoid, like a fantasy from a cheap science fiction film; however, I can only repeat to and assure the reader once again: all of this is the unadulterated truth. Believe my words or don't believe them. These things have happened and they will continue to happen, whether you believe it or not. Until it is too late. Our civilization is in danger.

Ole. K. - May 3, 2000

Transcript of the Interview (Shortened Version)

[Comment by Ole. K.: The meeting began with an appraisal of diverse questions and opinions which I had gotten from readers of the first transcript in anonymous fashion through distribution from my trustworthy friends. Some of these opinions-all together there were over 14 pages of paper-contained comments shaped by everything from a radically religious to a fanatical tendency to welcome contact with a reptilian species. Some of these comments contained stereotypical phrases like "Servants of Hell" or "Species of the Evil One". I don't want to go into any kind of detailed description here since I don't want pass on further any false and radical realm of thought.]

Question: When you read these religious and animosity-ridden comments here, what do you think and feel then? Is the relationship between your species and ours really shaped from that kind of total negation?

Answer: Does it amaze you that I am not completely angered by that? I had fully expected those kinds of extreme reactions. The programming for the utter negation of another species (especially the reptilian species) as in your own case is deeply embedded in each of your own individual consciousnesses. This ancient conditioning stems from the days of your third artificial creation and, biologically speaking, is passed down as an information genome from generation to generation. The identification of my species with the powers of darkness was a primary intention of the Illojiim, who liked seeing themselves in the role of the powers of light-something which in and of itself represents a paradox, since that humanoid species was extremely sensitive to your sunlight. In case you were expecting me to act offended, I guess I'll have to partially disappoint you. These obscure intentions are not really your fault; you are simply following for the most part what you have inherited from your ancestors. It is indeed actually somewhat disappointing that many of you develop no especially strong individual self-conscience, for this would help you to overcome the conditioning. As I already said, we were in direct contact in the last several centuries with some of your more primitive human tribes; these tribes had themselves succeeded in breaking through the old "creation programming;" they were able to meet us without tension, hate and total rejection. Apparently many of your modern civilized individuals are not in a position to think on their own, but rather let themselves be guided by programming and religion (which is also a manifestation of that ancient programming and part and parcel of the plan of the Illojiim). Therefore, comments of that kind I'd sooner regard as amusing than irritating; they simply confirm in large measure for me my suppositions about your defined mode of thinking.

Question: Therefore, you are not the "Species of the Evil One" as was remarked earlier?

Answer: How am I supposed to answer that? Your people still think according to a simple and completely inappropriate scheme of generalizations. Simply put, there are absolutely NO purely evil species. There exist in every terrestrial and extraterrestrial species alike both good and evil individuals; it's even true of your own people; but there is NO such thing as an absolutely evil species. This conception is really very primitive. You people have believed from time immemorial what you are supposed to believe-what was foreseen for you to believe by your creators. Every well-known species, even the more highly developed ones, consists of a great number of individual consciousnesses (at least a portion of the consciousness is individual, even though there are connecting fields of consciousness); these self-sufficient spirits are able to decide freely for themselves a lifestyle which is either good or evil, according to your own human standards. It depends again on the respective point of view; your people are not necessarily in a position to judge whether the deeds of a much more highly developed species are good or evil, because you stand at a lower observation point, from which an assessment is not possible. Your simple words "good" and "evil" are in any case examples of a tendency towards generalization; in my language there are many concepts for the various shades of meaning of individual behaviors in comparison to the norms of a society.

Even those extraterrestrial species which are inclined to act with antagonism towards you are not "Species of the Evil One," even though they operate negatively with respect to your own race. They do this for their own reasons and do not regard themselves as evil; were your structured way of thinking more linear and more focused as theirs is, then you would also behave in such a fashion. The attitude of a species towards other kinds of existence naturally depends very heavily on its respective structured way of thinking; each species sets its own priorities. To classify that as "good" or "evil" is really quite primitive, for the survival of any species argues for many varieties, among them your own, as well as for even the most varied of the worst or negatively-directed deeds. I won't even exclude my own kind in this regard, for there have been certain occurrences in the past which I don't personally welcome, but about which I would also not like to go into detail. None of these occurrences have happened in the last 200 years of your time scale. But please note the following: there are NO absolutely good and there are NO absolutely bad species, because each and every species always consists of individuals.

Question: In the letters that I got, there was often the question, whether you could go into any greater detail regarding the advanced physics that you commented on last time. Many people said, your words made no sense. For example, how do UFOs function, how do they fly, how do they perform the maneuvers that they do?

Answer: I ought to explain that to people? That's not all that simple. Let me think about it for a minute. I always have to use very simple words in order to make clear to you the basic principles of a higher kind of science. Let's try this: You have to be clear about some fundamental facts. The very first thing is that you must divide up the conception of the physical world because each existence consists of different layers; let's say for simplicity's sake that it consists of a material illusion and a sphere of influence. {TRANSLATOR'S NOTE: No legitimate translation exists for this word 'Feldraum'; "Feld" means "field," "Raum" means "space, room, expanse." Therefore, I'm translating it as "sphere of influence."} Certain physical conditions are associated only with the realm of the material {as in 'concrete'}, while other and more complicated conditions are associated only with the sphere of influence of the material world. Your conception of the physical world is based upon a simple material illusion. That illusion is further subdivided into three elementary or basic conditions of matter. A fourth and very important condition also exists, which you simply pay attention to more or less as you choose; it is the one bordering on the sphere of influence or plasma realm. For you, the theory for a controlled transformation or an elevation of the frequency of matter and the stable existence of this fourth aggregate condition of matter is not very common, or it exists at a very primitive level. (As an aside, there are simply five states of matter, but the post-plasma state would really be going too far and it would only serve to confuse you. Besides, it is not necessary for an understanding of the basic theory; it is connected with diverse phenomena which you would characterize as paranormal.) Now, back to the essentials: Plasma...now, with plasma I don't mean just "hot gas"-as the concept is generally simplified by your people-but rather I mean a higher aggregate condition of matter. The plasma state of matter is a special form of matter which lies between its real existence and the sphere of influence, that is, a complete loss of mass and pure accretion of energy of various form whenever matter is "pushed or shoved." {NOTE: No explanation was given for the use of the word "pushed, shoved" as used in this context. Your guess is as good mine.}

The fourth state of matter is very important for certain physical conditions which can be used for example to...how should I express this to you...generate antigravity. (That's a rather strange human word and not really correct, but you ought to understand it better this way.) Essentially, in the world of real physics, there are no bipolar forces, but rather only "observer dependent reflective behavior" of a single, large unified force at different levels. With antigravity or the displacement of gravitational characteristics into levels, one can, for example, cause apparently solid matter to levitate; this method is employed partly by us and by extraterrestrials as well as a means of propulsion for their UFOs. You people are moving on a really primitive level towards a similar principle for your secret military projects, but since you have more or less stolen this technology (and it was later falsely passed on to you intentionally by the extraterrestrials), you lack the real physical understanding; as a result, you have to struggle with problems of instability and radiation with your "UFOs". According to my information, there have been a great number of deaths of your people because of intense radiation and field disturbances. Don't you agree, this is also an example of the business regarding the question of "good" and "evil"? You people play with unknown forces and thereby accept the death of colleagues of your own kind, for they are dying for a greater cause, namely, for the advancement of your technology, which as a result is being put into place once again for the purpose of war, i.e., for negative pursuits. Now, one can give you the benefit of the doubt, that only the least number of your kind have any knowledge about these alien projects which are-as you explain it-top secret. It was told to you that the higher the ordinal or ranking number of basic matter, the simpler the heightening of the condition, but that is only partially correct. If you can't circumvent these powers, then you're better off not attempting it. But your kind has always been ignorant and has from time immemorial tried to play around with forces which you have not even understood. Why would that ever change?

You remember this business of copper fusion? By means of the fluctuation at the right angle with the induced radiation field, copper is fused with other elements. (The illusion of matter is fused, the fields in the sphere of influence overlap each other, but the main force would be reflected by that process and would assume a quasi-bipolar character.) The resulting connection and the field would therefore not be stable in the normal condition of matter and unsuited for tasks. As a result, the entire field spectrum is shifted to a higher plasma-like condition, whereby the spectrum comes together with this harsh shifting to the opposite pole side-the word is NOT correct-of the force field and it resembles quite closely a gravitational shift. This shifting causes a "tilting" of the repulsing quasi-bipolar force, which now no longer flows to the interior of the force field, but rather flows partly to the exterior of the field. The result is an inter-stratifying reflective force field which is very difficult to modulate within certain technical boundaries in relation to its own characteristics. It can also carry out a multiplicity of tasks, as for example, causing massive flying objects to be levitated and maneuvered. It can also exert a camouflage function in the realm of electromagnetic radiation as well as manipulate temporal sequences of events-indeed only to very limited extent-and other things as well. Are you familiar with your "quantum tunnel effect"? Even the amplitude equalizations among genuine matter can be achieved with one of those kinds of fields if the frequency and the distance from the plane of the field are high enough. Unfortunately, the whole thing that I have explained to you in your words has come out to be rather primitive, I'm afraid. It sounds rather strange and certainly impossible for your comprehension, but perhaps this simple explanation can be of some use to you in helping you to understand. But then again, maybe not.

Question: Is there a scientific substantiation for paranormal powers, as for example with your powers of thought?

Answer: Yes. In order to explain that, one has to acknowledge the physical reality of the sphere of influence {Feldraum}. I'll try to do it...wait just a second...you are going to have to separate yourself mentally from the illusion that that which you see is the true nature of the universe. It is, at best, the surface of a side. Imagine for yourself that all the matter here-you, this table, this pencil, this technical device, this paper-does not really exist, but that it is rather only the result of a field oscillation and a concentration of energy. All matter that you see, every creature, every planet and star in this universe, has an "information-energy equivalent" in the sphere of influence which is located on a main field-the general level {of things}. Now, there is not only one level, but several. Last time, I had mentioned that highly-developed species which is capable of changing levels (which is something completely different from the simple bubble changing, for bubbles are a part of each and every level). Do you understand? Dimensions, as you call them, are a part of a solitary bubble, bubbles or universal foam are a part of a level, and levels are layers in the sphere of influence, while the sphere of influence, acting in the capacity of single physical size, is essentially unending; it is composed of innumerable information-energy layers and general levels. There are in the sphere of influence no null-levels; all are the same, but they are separated by means of their energy conditions. I notice that I am confusing you now. I think I ought to stop with this explanation.

Question: No, please continue. How do concrete paranormal powers arise?

Answer: Well, OK then. Let's try something simpler. Again, it is not completely correct, but let's begin in this manner: Tangible matter on this side is mirrored in the sphere of influence {Feldraum} as a field with distinct layers. These layers contain information, as an example, about the simple structure of matter or the string frequency, but also there is stored information stemming from the development of matter. Are you familiar with the human concept of "morphogenetic fields?" One part of the layer could be designated as such. Now there is still another intermediary layer for which you unfortunately have no human concept, since the theory is not common in human thinking. Let's call it a "para-layer," for this layer is mainly responsible for everything which you call PSI and paranormal and which lies outside the boundaries of your primitive science. This para-layer lies between the layers of matter and the morphogenetic layers of a field in the sphere of influence. It can actively integrate with both. Your body, for example, is mirrored as a field in the sphere of influence {Feldraum}. That doesn't mean that it does not also exist here as well-as flesh, blood, bones-in the form of matter strings or atoms, but not only that. Existence is always a duality. Some layers of the field contain simple information about the solid matter of your body and its frequency, while other layers {contain information about} your spirit, your consciousness or, speaking >from a human-religious point of view, your soul. Awareness or consciousness in this case is a simple energy matrix, divided into different layers of your field in the sphere of influence-nothing more, nothing less. Genuine awareness can also exist here on the matter side, but only in the form of post-plasma {the fifth form of matter}. With the necessary physical knowledge and the corresponding technology, the consciousness/awareness matrix, or soul, can also be separated from its field of rest. It can, despite its removal, continue to exist in a self-sufficient manner for a certain amount of time. That has the strange occult name of "soul robbing." But above all, we're talking about science here, not about magic or dark forces.

[Comment by Ole. K.: The "soul robbing" was mentioned in one of the radical, religiously-motivated comments in connection with the reptilian species.]

But back to your Question: Creatures with more powerful mental powers can have a direct influence on the para-layer by means of their consciousness/awareness fields. Now this layer is not limited only to the individual, but rather as a part of a general information layer-you could call it in a prosaic sense the community soul-that is connected with all animate and inanimate matter and all consciousness which exist on this main level. The biological cause for these abilities lies on the side of matter, by the way, in the pituitary gland, which always is in the position to generate the frequencies to actively control the sphere of influence {Feldraum}. Even you people could theoretically do this; however, you are solidly blocked in these things. As I have said, the para-layer can interact with mind as well as with matter. For example, if I decide to use my mental powers once more in order to move this pencil, then, simply said, I imagine in my mind how my consciousness/awareness expands/amplifies itself on the matter side in the form of post-plasma to the pencil. In the sphere of influence this causes simultaneously an automatic command from the consciousness/awareness layer to the para-layer to interact with the matter layer of the pencil. Since the para-layer is not confined to the body, it is not even a problem that the pencil lies over there, for I can unerringly reach it, even without moving my matter body. Post-Plasma on this side, para-layer on the other. I have control over the pencil and the interaction brings the matter field of the pencil to the point where it changes in the manner in which it moves, for example.

[Comment by Ole K.: I certify that the pencil mentioned above abruptly at that very moment jumped into the air to a height of 20 cm and then fell back to the surface of the table. The sound is clearly heard on the recording tape. No one visibly had touched that pencil.]

Question: That is fascinating. Which kinds of paranormal activities can one generate with that?

Answer: All kinds. Everything that you call paranormal. As I said, this special layer lies in the sphere of influence {Feldraum} between the morphogenetic information layers and the matter layers and can interact with respect to both sides. That is to say, it can be interacted with solid matter as well as with mind or mental information, wherewith we can achieve everything that is generally designated as telekinesis and telepathy. The "connection absorption" with another consciousness/awareness is generally separate in the procedure from the simple influence of matter, since different consciousness/awareness fields work with different oscillations. A consciousness/awareness that sends or a consciousness/awareness that listens must first adapt itself to the other mind exactly, before any access is possible. Most species also have chances to block the alien access, but you people don't have this. The following is generally valid: the stronger the paranormal abilities of a species, the simpler the adaptation and the access. Our own abilities are not so powerfully developed; therefore, first we have to learn specifically alien mind influence in order to use our mimicry, for example-where mimicry is actually quite simple in your minds due to the implanting of the on/off switch. Some of these abilities are also partially inherited; mother and child of my kind as an example are attuned exactly during the first months of life-partially also in the egg covering in the expectant mother-and communicate telepathically. In order to influence you people, we need a certain amount of time for practicing, despite your simple structure. Therefore, it is forbidden, for example, for adults of my kind before the "Age of Enlightenment" to come to the surface of the Earth. (That term is synonymous, along with other things, with full physical strength.) In the case of not fully developed abilities, the danger of discovery by you would be too great. By the way, there are of course numerous secret teachings about the real possibilities which can give one these abilities, but I really don't know anything exact about that.

Whenever an alien mind ought to be influenced, then there are some generally valid steps, which are set into motion by other extraterrestrial species. First and foremost, the alien oscillation must be felt, something generally that is done automatically by the brain, i.e., for the one the field oscillation, for the other the quasi-electrical brain waves here in the normal space {which matter inhabits}. That is not especially difficult. After that, one simply probes for the other consciousness/awareness in the mind with a post-plasma manifestation, the sphere of influence {Feldraum} reacts and the connection is there. Now one can read out information from the first one and record the desired information to the second one in the correct location. You asked me last time whether you people have the opportunity to protect yourselves against this influence, and I told you that only an awake and concentrated mind had any kind of a chance to withstand it. In this state of mind the oscillations change very abruptly and access becomes complicated; more precisely, it can come as a painful recoil. Whenever you close your eyes, then the field becomes "flat," and alien access {to the mind} is immediately possible and without restriction. In terms of your chances against a more highly developed species, you have none at all. They are able to adjust the oscillations faster than you can change. I could even demonstrate it on yourself, but you were really horrified and confused the last time, so we'll just leave it at an explanation.

This explanation presumably sounds to you like-as you say-something esoteric or from the occult or magic. The reason for that is simply that you lack the basic understanding for seeing the background reasons. All paranormal phenomena have a purely scientific origination. None of this has anything to do with supernatural powers. We grow up with this kind of knowledge, we know how one makes use of these powers, and where they come from. We are acquainted with theory and practice. You are not. Therefore, you really don't understand what happens in your world-you see only one side of existence, not the other (I mean here both that are physical). Everything paranormal is dualistic, and it exists in the space that matter inhabits as well as in the sphere of influence {Feldraum}. To be explained...it can only be explained by the acceptance of the latter, because the sphere of influence {Feldraum} is the basis. I would welcome an end to the scientific questions since you really aren't grasping them anyway. We're wasting more or less valuable time by doing this.

Question: Only one last question. At our first meeting in December, you made it quite clear that you didn't want to discuss scientific and paranormal concerns. Why the openness now?

Answer: The last time I saw really no necessity in overburdening you with facts of that kind (and now you are obviously overburdened). Therefore, I had preferred only to mention these topics in a peripheral sense. Apparently, however, some of my performances today have set you to thinking about your world, something that can't be all bad. And by the way, your human scientists will tend to regard my comments as "humbug." And so I see no great danger in spreading this information widely. No one will pay much attention to it. By the way, the words of people who have characterized me as a "Creature of Evil" have their basis in the belief in occult powers and magic-both of which things DO NOT exist. There is no magic, only highly developed science, and everything that you label as "magic" is only a part of science. If you would only comprehend that, then you would be a step ahead in your development. My openness on this issue ends here. Pose other questions, please.

Question: Good. Let's talk about UFOs. Can you explain to me how our governments came into possession of UFO material to the point that they could start their own projects? Did it have anything to do with the "Roswell Incident?"

Answer: Yes, but that incident was not the first one. I am no historian, I am studying only your current behavior, so my knowledge about those events in your history is presumably not very extensive. I will try to explain to you what I know about those things which happened at that time. Let me think about it for a second. In the years 1946 to 1953 in your time scale, there were five cases where extraterrestrial ships crashed to the surface of the Earth. In that crash which you call the "Roswell Incident," there was not only one alien ship involved, but two that crashed after a collision in different parts of the land in the west-the one you call the USA. (You have to know that the ships of this particular species can remain levitating in the air for a particular period of time even though they are damaged; that accounts for the spatial difference {in their crash locations}.) These were indeed not the first crashes, but by that time the second and the third. Another ship had crashed in 1946, but it was destroyed beyond usability.

One thing first before the explanation: it certainly sounds ridiculous to you that such highly developed extraterrestrial ships simply crash, and that a relatively large number did so in a relatively short amount of time. The explanation for that is likewise more than strange, but it is correct. It does not lie in the ship's drive itself, but rather in the direction of the field to your planet. This species that we are discussing-and it was always in this time period that this species used a disk-shaped craft-used a propulsion system which ran according to the normal principle of fusion, to be sure, but one that at that time employed a more than unconventional method for field alignment. This method had various advantages but also disadvantages. The repelling field must of course lie in the absolute correct angle to the surface of the Earth. This species used an alignment technology in their ships, with which the field locked into place all points of the Earth's magnetic field. Now at that time this species had just arrived on the earth and their point of origin lay on a planet with a more stable magnetic field, for which they had developed and aligned their drive. The magnetic field of the Earth is not really all that stable; it is subject to cyclical variations and it forms field eddies under unfavorable conditions. Whenever a ship with one of those kinds of drives gets into a field fluctuation or into an eddy that is too strong, then for a short time the repelling field can no longer align itself correctly and the ship glides uncontrolled on its flight path. The drive is operating correctly, to be sure, but the field fluctuates in all directions and because of that, the ship can crash. In the case from 1947 which you addressed, it is my understanding that one of the ships got caught in a fluctuation, its field linked up unintentionally with that of its squadron leader and it collided with another ship whereby both of them were heavily damaged. The cause for the magnetic fluctuation at that time was probably an electrical disturbance brought about by a weather event. Both ships crashed as a result; one of them fell near the collision point, the other a hundred of your kilometers or so distant. All occupants were killed in the impact. The thin hull structure of that kind of disk craft is in and of itself not very stable, since those disks have not been designed for crashes as well as for flight in a field where there are exterior forces at work.

Now, your human military collected the individual pieces at first until they discovered the whole ships with the dead creatures aboard. Immediately they classified everything as "Top Secret" and brought them to their military bases in order to analyze the drive. The secret endeavor was to set the alien technology in place later against evil enemies of that great country. That is as primitive as it is ridiculous. I believe I remember-I don't want to specify exactly your date-that it was probably between 1949 and 1952 that there was a rather bad accident during some research being done on one of the wrecks. According to what I heard-what members of my species were told by members of that government-it resulted in an unintentional activation of one of the drive's components in the unshielded condition. As a result, for a very short period of time-how should I phrase this-there was an unchecked shift of the environment to a plasma-like condition, which on the other hand, through a very, very unfortunate accident, caused an overturning of the general power field into a magnetic pulse of immense power. Do you have any idea what kind of an effect a plasma-magnetic jolt has, when it comes into contact with an organism? No, how should you know that. Of course you don't. Disturbance in the structure of the field and bioelectric feedback. Imagine, if you will, a human body which is engulfed in bright flames for 3 or 4 of your days. Those flames apparently do not go out and they burn the body right down to its last constituents. Well, then you have an approximate impression of what happened. I think that 20 or 30 of your scientists were killed in that lab.

Two further crashes occurred in 1950 and 1953 in the water catchment area of the American continent. Those ships were able to be recovered from the crashes relatively intact. (The one in 1953, as I remember, even had an intact drive core. It was by means of that device that you saw for the first time that you had understood the entire concept fully incorrectly and that you had reconstructed it fully incorrectly. Even today you still don't have it right.) That species, which had built the ships in the first place-a species which I, by the way, count among those who are unfriendly towards you-was naturally worried about the investigation of their own technology by your kind. They did not want, however, at that early point in time, to begin direct conflict with you, and so they chose the diplomatic path and came into contact with that government during your 1960's. Of course, they did not divulge the real reasons for their being here-copper, hydrogen, air-but rather they pretended to be curious "researchers" and offered to show people the functioning principle of the ships whereby they would expect in return some "favors." Simple-minded as you are, you of course agreed to it...and were deceived. You gave them raw materials, you gave them secured locations for their bases, you gave them access to your most secret defense data, you gave them access to your DNA and much more-and all just to quench your greed for power and information. The alien species of course quickly noticed that they were dealing with simple-minded creatures, and they gave you false and inferior information about their technology so that they receive much more out of the collaboration than your kind do. For example, they gave you information that the drive can only be constructed with unstable elements of a higher ranking number, but they withheld the information that the field drive can be constructed with various modifications to work as well with stable elements of a lower periodic number, and generally, that's the way it's done. Through these half truths they made you dependent on the synthesizing of high {numbered} elements, and thereby renewed by their own technology. Their clues to the construction of your "UFOs" were laid out in such a way that the solution to old problems caused new problems to arise simultaneously. They never told you the complete truth, but always built in again and again clever lies, which later lead to technical problems-and to your dependence on them.

In the last years of your 1970's and your early 1980's, it finally came down to various events between the alien species and that human government-I don't want to go into detail here since there is much that even I am not exactly sure of. The whole thing lay in the context with some new, or better said, the old technical problems with your own self-constructed ships whose camouflage and drive partially failed to function in test flights in the open. Because of that, the function of secrecy was threatened. Your military and your politicians slowly-very slowly-came to the conclusion after more than 20 years of this that they had been deceived by that alien species. Multitudinous incongruities and the overstepping of bounds of the treaties by both sides finally led to an altercation between you and the extraterrestrials, which culminated in the lift-off of three of the alien aerial objects through a special-how do you say it?-EMP {electromagnetic pulse} weapon and a military skirmish at one of their underground installations. As a consequence of these attacks, the alien species ultimately withdrew from all contact with you and was understandably more than angered about your kind. Therefore, I count these extraterrestrials among the three groups who are hostile towards you, and while the other two are more occupied with their own business, among them waging a cold war for dominance on your planet, your old "friends" and partners are preparing to supply themselves finally with the sole and absolute dominance over raw materials and human DNA. At the moment it is probably true that they lack some of the technical possibilities and the large amount of forces which they need in order to achieve their goals directly. In spite of that, we are counting on negative actions-possibly ever of a more subtle kind-against you in the next few years or decades.

Question: Will the other extraterrestrial species undertake nothing against these war-like actions? Specifically, something ought to be on Earth for the more highly developed species.

Answer: You're wrong there. Specifically, for the more highly developed species there is simply at the very least your fate. You are animals for them. Animals in a very large lab. Understandably, an alien intervention on your planet would disturb their projects, but I don't think that they accept a confrontation with other species for it. Many of them could look for another research planet for themselves or they could study over a long distance your behavior and your consciousness/awareness, since crisis situations could have an attraction for their studies. Whenever you people take a look at an ant hill, and another person comes along and steps on the ant hill, what do you do? You go on your way, or you search for another ant hill or you observe the ants in their crisis condition. But would one of you-even though he were larger and more powerful than the one who stepped on the ant hill in the first place-defend the meaningless ants? No. You have to imagine for yourself the viewpoint of the more highly advanced creatures. You are the ants. Don't expect any help from them.

Of course we would also ask for help when it became clear that your old partners were ganging up on you. Some members of that human government are fully aware of our existence-also partially owing to an old religious basis. For example, there is a gigantic partially underground building in the capital which is totally dedicated to my species and that also has a direct approach to an elevator shaft and to an underground system. In this building partial meetings have taken place and do take place between us and humans. We have passed on information to you in the last few years; according to what I know, we will keep ourselves as far away from the conflict as we can. You ought to learn to solve your own problems yourselves or to become intelligent enough never to create those kinds of situations. What will come and who will possibly place themselves on your side, only time will tell. I really do not want to make any indications about that.

Question: I have here 5 prints of different UFOs, which claim to show UFOs. Can you take a look at the pictures and tell me in which of them actual extraterrestrial aerial craft can be seen?

Answer: I can try it. You pose many questions to me today which even I cannot answer unequivocally. Don't overestimate my knowledge, I'm no expert in alien technology and the construction of extraterrestrial ships. To be sure, there are mostly some technical details and peculiarities about genuine "UFOs," with whose help one can easily differentiate them from natural phenomena or human forgeries. You falsify sometimes the pattern of genuine ships; therefore, it is not so easy simply with absolute certainty to identify an object. I'll try it. Show me the photos.

[Comment by Ole K.: She considered the pictures respectively for only a couple of seconds and then sorted out photos 1, 3 and 5.]

These three pictures here are obvious counterfeits or erroneous identifications. In the one picture, it certainly seems to me that a real existing ship of an alien species was adapted for a small model here. It lacks important characteristics which are tied in with the technically- and physically-associated field. Generally speaking, a picture is all the more a fake, the clearer the outline and the colors are, because a levitating ship is generally hidden in a shifted-field condition that even distorts the colors or the forms according to alignment. It might perhaps sound strange, but hazy and spectrally-shifted photos are sometimes to be interpreted as an indication for a possibly authenticity. By the way, this object is floating above the water. If it were a genuine ship, we would have to see in any case either a trough or a swell on the surface. Since the surface is flat, it is obviously not a genuine ship. In my opinion, none of these three pictures show genuine objects in flight or UFOs. Here in this picture I see above all no artificial object in flight; it seems much more to deal with only a light reflex in your simple optical cameras. You really ought to be intelligent enough not to fall for a mix-up like that. When your general public chases counterfeits and frauds for a long time, then they will presumably discover too late, what is really going on in front of them in their atmosphere.

PHOTO 2: Albiosc, France, 1974

This one seems to be genuine, at least it displays the necessary characteristics. I would assign it at first glance to an alien species who have been visiting your planet for the last 35 years or so. The object itself is metallic and disk-shaped; certainly it is distorted in form and color by means of a field effect. These four white and very long "processes" on the underside of the ship itself portray a kind of quasi-gravitational light manipulation, i.e., the universal force field is being shifted in the direction of a simulated gravity. Actually, it is not a genuine light (it is mostly not a genuine light whenever you see illuminating "UFOs") but a special strongly charged form field which manifests itself in the space that matter inhabits as a quasi-light. The reason for the activation of this special high-energy system in an atmosphere is not completely clear to me; it's possible that it is a kind of investigating or influencing of the environment. In any case, it is terribly careless of that species to allow this technology to be photographed by humans. Well, I guess that most of you just plain don't understand it, and those who do will not say anything about it to the general public.

PHOTO 4: Petit Rechain, Belgium, 1990

This is in fact a genuine aerial object; it is in no way extraterrestrial. Triangular aerial objects in flight are simply not used by alien species, or not in this form, at least. That streamlined kind of form is a human concept. It is one of your own secret military projects that you build with the help of immature alien technology-technology that was handed over to you by the extraterrestrials during the 1960's and the 1970's. Generally, the form of the hull for a genuine extraterrestrial ship is of no consequence, for inside the field itself there are no exterior forces that have any effect there; in general, the ships have a rounded off form and they are built without hard edges-as a disk or a cylinder-so that the field can flow more easily. Your projects decree that along with the alien drive field there also be a conventional jet engine system; therefore, they are always triangular and built thus with streamlining in order to be steerable with this primitive recoil principle.

In the example here the ship glides above all on its genuine field drive. Do you see the distortion and the quasi-light in the rotating cylinders? That is an unmistakable indication for the authenticity of the photo. But why, you might ask, are there 4 cylinders? That's unusual-even the interval seems to be incorrect. The coloring is very dark and the interior optical distortion is very noticeable. Presumably a reconstruction of the original system by your scientists. Since the alien species has just not given you any more information since the disagreement, they are rebuilding the systems singlehandedly without actually being able to understand what kind of dangerous thing they are doing there. This construction does not make the system better, only more unstable. Both of the forward cylinders are too close to each other; they will definitely flow into each other. The color shows me a powerful residual radiation; it was probably the case that high elements were used again as customary for the shifting. It is in any case very dangerous to be unshielded in the vicinity of the field. Did the person who took the photo display any kind of radiation and burn damage?

Question: I don't know. Where do these military "UFOs" come from? From the United States?

Answer: Yes. I think generally that's true. From the western continent.

Question: Why then do they fly over thickly populated areas of Europe? This photo comes from Belgium. That doesn't make any sense. Can you explain?

Answer: Why is it that ONLY I am able to explain strange human deeds? It's possible that these are long-distance tests or tests with the electromagnetic camouflage systems. The old enemy of the American nation is on this side of the world, so why shouldn't they test here? At home they've had enough time to have had their ships crossing back and forth. Maybe they have aroused too much observation there. With one of those kinds of unstable field structures-as your photo indicates-I consider it somewhat improbable that that ship is capable of making a flight of that length over the ocean. It's possible there is a test station here on your continent. Unfortunately, I don't know anything about it.

Question: Many readers of the first transcript have posed the question how your original contact with E.F. came about. I already know the story from your narratives, but could you repeat it here once again for this volume and for the new transcript?

Answer: Of course. Now, the story began about two of your years ago here in Sweden. I have been strongly interested in your species and your behavior since my youth; I had already studied your literature at that time, as well as possible. (Naturally, it is not easy in my homeland to come into possession of human books, but since my group or family stands in a higher ranking order, I was able to gather some material together and sometimes to speak with others of my kind who have already been in contact with you.) I was really very curious about your species and as soon as I was allowed to come to the surface, I attempted to assemble more information immediately; above all, it was expressly forbidden for me to commence direct contact with humans because in my position at that time, there existed no necessity for doing so.

It was in your year 1998, when I was on my way further north from here in the remote forests in the vicinity of the entrance to my world and was looking for biological specimens, which we use in order to watch over environmental pollution and destruction of your flora and fauna statistically by your own kind. At the time, I was already on the return path to the entrance-we can even orient ourselves more easily, by the way, through our senses to the Earth's magnetic field-and already in the vicinity of the large lake, when much to my surprise I came across a cabin in the woods. In this cabin I sensed a human consciousness/awareness. It was E.F. Actually, I had no permission for contact with another species, but by the same token I had set in place my mimicry capability quite successfully prior to this-even with larger groups of you (I had never ever come across a human being when I was alone). Now, let's call it primitive curiosity; I wanted to talk with the person in this cabin and so I knocked on the door. E. opened the door and we got into an interesting conversation. His language was not quite yet common at that time for me, but it's not all that hard to learn a new language when one can read the information in the consciousness/awareness of the opposite individual. I simply told him that I came from a foreign country in the east. Of course at the time, he did not really "recognize" who I was; he was totally convinced that he was talking with a creature of his own kind, although it was simply only a mimicry image.

Since my assignment anyway had as its goal an investigation of this terrain which was to last for several days, I visited him in this span of time three times as a human person. At first we talked mainly about really ordinary things; later we got into religious and physical topics. He seemed to be impressed by my knowledge, and I was likewise impressed with his clear thoughts and his-for a human being-well displayed personality structure and his own opinions. You really like giving yourselves over completely to a public opinion or conditioning, as for example, "reptilian species are evil" and stuff like that. I steered the conversation in this direction, and E.F. said something to the effect that he believed in alien species and that they did not have to necessarily be evil, but perhaps only different than his kind are. That pleased me. At that juncture of time, of course, I could not speak concretely with him about my knowledge because he wouldn't have believed me-he would have taken me for a human practical joker. I cultivated the very, very unusual idea (for my kind) to show him my true exterior, something that I did during our conversation at our fourth meeting in the cabin. Actually, he was predestined for contact: he was open-minded, honest, intelligent, not religiously inclined or conditioned; he lived alone and isolated, and no one would believe him, should he decide to go public with his story. I dared to take the step, but then I had serious doubt about the propriety of my act, especially when he reacted...very...violently. He got control of himself again after a time and we could finally talk concretely about definite matters. Now he had no choice but to believe me. This was the beginning of a series of meetings which initially took place there in the woods, but later took place in his remote residence. Finally he brought you into contact with me...and for that reason we are now sitting here once again and talking about things which probably won't be believed out there in human society.

Question: You said, you would not have had permission at that time for contacts with human beings. Do you now then have permission to talk with E.F. and me about all these things and even to make this scientifically public?

Answer: Yes. That is difficult to explain and for you to understand. Let's just say, I find myself in the position now to arrange this permission without having to take into account any consequences. In this position I am quasi-"immune" against certain restrictions. Let's look it that way. Yes.

Question: If other people want to come into contact with your kind, do they have a chance to do so?

Answer: Generally not. We avoid contact with you and we operate on the surface only in remote areas and there we use the mimicry techniques in case we should meet some people. That I am talking with you now does not mean that others will follow my example. It goes without saying that you could try to find an entrance to my world and penetrate your way into there. However, that can sooner lead to unpleasant consequences for the infiltrator. You have next to no chances on the surface of recognizing us. You can't even contact us directly, we have to contact you, just as I did with E.F. Those kinds of contacts however are not the rule but are very rare occurrences.

Question: Can you describe your subterranean homeland location?

Answer: I can attempt to do so, but I certainly will not tell you where this place is located. My homeland lies in one of our smaller underground settlements to the east of here. I'll give you some numbers so that you can make a better impression for yourself. Just a minute...I have to try to convert the measurements approximately into your units. It is a dome-shaped cavern at a distance of about 4300 meters from the Earth's surface. The cavern was organized as a colony about 3000 years ago; a major portion of the ceiling structure is artificially integrated into the rock and the form was remodeled into an almost elegantly proportioned and very flat dome with an oval ground plan. The diameter of the dome according to your measures is about two-and-a-half kilometers. The height of the dome at the highest point is about 220 meters. Underneath that highest point in every colony there stands a special whitish-gray cylindrical building-a kind of supporting column which holds the honeycomb net-carrying structure of the dome. This building is the tallest, largest and oldest in the entire dome for it is always situated as the first construction together with the security of the ceiling. (In the meantime of course there were times when it was completed and reconditioned.) That building has a very special name and religious significance. We have only one of those columns; larger colonies even have more columns according to the construction of the ceiling.

One of the main colonies in Inner Asia has as an example 9 of those kinds of supports, but that colony is also over 25 of your kilometers in size. The central building is generally a center of religion, but also a center for climate control, and a center for the behavior and the regulation of the lighting system. We have at our location all together 5 large artificial light sources which generate your UV light and its warmth through gravitational sources. The air shafts and the light systems from the surface likewise run through these columns and naturally, they are very intensely controlled.

By the way, we have 3 air shafts and 2 elevator systems there, and even a tunnel connection to the next main colony which lies approximately 500 kilometers to the southeast. One elevator shaft leads to a cavern near the surface, the other leads to one of our depots for the ships-you remember, the cylindrical ships-that is naturally concealed closer to the surface behind a rocky mountain face. Normally, there are only three ships there-it's a small depot. The other buildings of the colony are, for the most part, concentrically ordered in oval circles around the main supporting column, and they are without exception much flatter; generally only between 3 and 20 meters tall. The shape of the buildings is round and dome-like. The color is even differentiated according to circle and distance from the main column. To the north of the column, there is an additional, very large but very flat round building. This building interrupts the concentric system of the colony with its diameter of about 250 meters. It is the artificial sun zone in which specially illuminated corridors and rooms are housed. In these locations very powerful UV light predominates, and they are used in order to warm our blood. There is even a medical dispensary and a meeting room located there. Beyond the outer ring of the colony, there are zones in which animals are kept-you know, we MUST consume flesh as nourishment-and the gardens in which plant nourishment and mushroom culture are cultivated; there is also hot and cold running water there from subterranean sources. The power station is located on the edge of the colony. The station is driven by fusion as its base and it supplies the colony and the "suns" with energy. My group or "family" lives, by the way, in the fourth ring of buildings out from the central support column. So much in such a short time. To describe to you all the buildings and their tasks would be going too far. It is difficult to describe something like that to you, for it is a completely different set of surroundings and culture from what you are accustomed to in your life on the surface. You really have to see it for yourself to be able to believe it.

Question: Will I myself see it sometime?

Answer: Who knows, maybe. Time brings new opportunities.

Question: How many creatures of your kind live in this colony?

Answer: Approximately 900.

Question: That is the end of the interview. Do you have any final message for the readers of the transcript?

Answer: Yes. I am thoroughly surprised at the many comments to my words; of course, I am naturally also disappointed about the religious portrayals of me as the enemy which have been voiced and which have buried themselves deeply in your mind. You should learn to set yourselves apart from the old conditioning and not to stand quasi under the control of something or someone who has already been gone for 5000 years. You are, after all, free spirits. Those are my final words.

End of File Lacerta 2